The Winning Mindset
The Winning Mindset is for empowering athletes, parents, and coaches to excel in sports and life. We focus on building mental toughness, positive attitudes, and promoting personal growth through shared insights and motivational content.
The Winning Mindset
The Do's and Don'ts of Modern Baseball
Baseball isn't just changing—it's transforming before our eyes. But are all these changes for the better?
Former MLB player Jeff Fry doesn't hold back as he takes us on a journey through baseball's evolution, from his own unlikely path to the major leagues to the troubling trends he sees in today's game. Growing up in a town of just 2,000 people in eastern Oklahoma, Fry defied the odds to forge a remarkable 15-year professional career, including nine seasons in the big leagues. His story begins with 15 consecutive hits in a summer baseball tournament and culminates in a major league career that most thought impossible.
The conversation quickly shifts to what's working in baseball today—and what isn't. Fry admires the incredible athletic talent in today's game but questions why so many gifted athletes hit .230 while celebrations for routine plays grow increasingly elaborate. "Back in the day, home run hitters hit around .300... now it seems accepted to swing for the fences and slug," he explains, pointing to how analytics departments have redefined success at the expense of entertainment value.
Parents and coaches will find particular value in Fry's passionate advocacy for youth development. He stresses that 10-year-olds shouldn't be getting "rattled" on baseball fields and recommends keeping kids in Little League until age 12 before transitioning to more competitive environments. His advice for parents after games? Simply say "I love watching you play" instead of critiquing performance on the drive home.
Whether you're a coach, parent, player or just a fan concerned about baseball's direction, this candid conversation delivers powerful insights about preserving the game's core values while embracing necessary evolution. Fry leaves us with timeless wisdom: "Believe in yourself, outwork the competition, and if you want it bad enough, you can achieve anything in life."
Welcome in, ladies and gentlemen, to episode 11 of the Winning Mindset. It's been a while Chris and myself have been traveling a little bit summer vacation. We don't have babysitters for the kids right now, so we're kind of all over the place, but excited to jump back in. We've got a great episode lined up with us. We've got former big leaguer Jeff Fry on the podcast talking about the do's and don'ts of baseball. Looking forward just to kind of hearing where the state of Major League Baseball is at college baseball, youth baseball and all things in between. So, jeff, thanks for joining us. Appreciate you hopping on and talking baseball with us. We know you don't have a lot to say about the state of baseball and where it's at right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't have a lot to say about the state of baseball and where it's at right now. Yeah, I don't really even know why you guys haven't have me on here. Really, I have no opinion on what's going on in baseball, but I do more knowledge, apparently. I do appreciate you guys have me on.
Speaker 1:I'm looking forward to this um, jeff, why don't you give us a brief intro? You know, tell us about yourself, um your baseball life, your journey. I know you've got a unique college career and kind of how you got to Major League Baseball. Why don't you give us a quick introduction of yourself?
Speaker 2:Okay, Like most kids, I grew up playing Little League and summer ball and things like that.
Speaker 2:I loved baseball my entire life and just you know, had the dream of becoming a major leaguer someday, even though it was probably not very realistic. And you know, I just kept working at it and working at it. And got to high school and, oh, I was about to go to college to play basketball, junior college to play basketball. And then that summer I had a great couple of days. I had 15 hits in a row over a two-day period and the local junior college coach asked me to come to Carl Albert and play baseball and basketball. So I did, and basketball didn't last that long.
Speaker 2:I had two years of JUCO and then I thought I was going big time D1, and nobody called and said I was too small, too slow, knock-kneed and duck-footed. So, with my tail tucked between my legs, I went to NAIA school and did pretty well. My senior year I set the school record in hitting. Believe it or not, it still stands today. That was 1988. I hit 455 and thought I was done man.
Speaker 2:And my teammate was a two-time All-American. He was a junior, I was just finished my senior year, I was about to finish school and maybe I don't know what I was going to do, and then he got invited to a Texas Rangers tryout camp and decided that he didn't want to go because he was going to get drafted. And I went in his place and had the day of my life and got invited to another tryout camp and ended up getting drafted in the 30th round, signed for two grand and ended up playing for 15 years just over nine years in the major leagues. I've been playing for 15 years just over nine years in the major leagues and yeah, I mean it's still kind of crazy that it actually happened. It wasn't supposed to happen, but you know, I sure am glad it did.
Speaker 3:That's incredible. I won't date you, but you said 1988, and it made me laugh. I was born in 1990. So whenever somebody says that, I'm like whoa, that was, that was a few minutes ago. So, man, that's an incredible story, that you know that. That I mean. I don't know if you want to call it coincidental, but the fact that you had a teammate not want to go and you were like, hey, I'll jump in, and then you know, it played out that way. I mean, obviously I think that's something. I mean your hard work and talent also got you there. You know what I mean. I don't want to snub that and say other than that you know what I mean. It's not like you just showed up and they gave you the job. But, man, that's such a cool story, especially if you have a 15-year career.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, and it's funny, my teammate actually got drafted by the Reds and we played against each other quite a bit and he ended up making a AAA. He never made it to the big leagues I wish he would have, but he was a stud, two-time All-American, could do it all. I don't know why I made it. I was pretty determined. I didn't really have a plan B. I didn't want to go back to the town. I graduated high school from a town of 2,000 people in eastern Oklahoma where it seemed like nobody did a whole lot after, you know, either worked in a factory or started working out in the fields, and I wasn't ready for that stuff. So I was going to go as hard as I could and work my butt off until they took my uniform away.
Speaker 3:There you go. Hey, that's kind of like for my football team. Our team mantra was burn the boats. Last season it kind of sounds like that was your mentality coming out of college. It was like burn the boats, there's no other option, it's all forward. So that's awesome. So Major League career has an incredible 15 year career. What? Where did you transition once you, once you finished up your your major league career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, it happened pretty quick, just kind of out of the blue. I had some opportunities to get back in the game, uh, in the scouting side, and uh, actually, thad levine, who was the rangers assistant actually at the time I think he was the rocky with the rockies and he asked if I wanted to get into scouting and I said I don't know. I said how many days a week will I have to be at the field? And he said probably six. I said no chance. And then I had a chance to get into coaching, but you know I wasn't. I'd been gone away from my kids. I had little boys and I didn't want to miss any more time with them.
Speaker 2:And so the coaching aspect, it wasn't like you can just get a big league coaching job today. Guys get retired and next thing you know they're coaching the big leagues. Back in those days you had to start in the minor leagues at low levels and earn your stripes. So I wasn't about to do that. And so a friend of mine asked if I considered being a sports agent. And I was like, well, I could work on the player side and do that working at home.
Speaker 2:And so I became a sports agent for 21 years and it's not really a business that's designed for me. I'm a loyal guy and and honest and and uh, I have integrity and it's really not the you know the best uh attributes, I think, for a sports agent. You got to be pretty cutthroat and not afraid to go out behind people's backs and lie and steal and stuff, and so I lasted 21 years, man and uh enjoyed most of it, but after that I got out and now I'm doing some keynote speaking and doing a lot of traveling lately, doing charity events and things like that, and just trying to enjoy life.
Speaker 1:That's awesome we're, uh, it's. It's interesting the sports agency thing I always think of. You know, I'm obviously playing and having agents and stuff like that. Like, was there a point that you got to? You're like this just isn't for me anymore. Did baseball get you to that point? Did the game change? What kind of made you like all right, I need to get out and find something else to do with myself.
Speaker 2:Well, when my last major league client that I had represented since he was 16 years old, fired me in a minute and 14 second phone call after I'd been his agent for nine years, I was like man. I don't know. You know, and the season before I'm not going to name him, but the season before his dad and his youth hitting coach or his hitting coach, his whole life came to you know to see him play and stayed at my house for four days and you know, it's like family, we were family. And all of a sudden, a minute 14 second phone call and I'm no longer the guy and I was like man. I just, you know there was times where that would happen, where I couldn't sleep for like a week you know, I'm just sitting there thinking what did I do wrong?
Speaker 2:What did I do wrong? And I didn't do anything wrong it and I didn't do anything wrong. It's just. There's just not much loyalty anymore. There's always someone trying to steal your guy. Everything's better on their side, especially the bigger agencies that will come in and say, hey, okay, you've outgrown this guy now. He did a good job for you, but now we're going to do this for you and really all they become is another one of the guys. Another one of the guys where, to me, this guy was my top guy. I gave him all the attention. Now he's one of hundreds that probably doesn't get phone calls returned, but he can say he's with the big agency, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was enough.
Speaker 1:I think loyalty is something that from travel ball to college ball, the pro ball, like there's no loyalty anywhere anymore and I think a lot of the call it old school, old heads. But I think it's just who you are at your core. If you're a good person, you're a loyal person at your core and I think you want to be around those people. So when you made this shift from being an agent to doing some keynote speaking, how did you decide that that was the route that you wanted to go? What kind of pulled you to keynote speaking and charities and stuff like that?
Speaker 2:Well, the keynote speaking thing really came about because a few people have asked me to. Hey, would you want to come talk at our banquet, or you know little things like that. And I was like sure I'll go do it and I would just kind of tell my story, kind of like I told you guys when we started. Today there's so much more to it. And I tell my story and people are like you need to tell this story more often. This is like an incredible story how you made it to where you did, with all the obstacles you had to overcome, and I was like for me it was just my life. I never looked at it that way and they're like you should do that.
Speaker 2:And then so I went and heard this guy speak. I'm not going to say his name either, but he speaks. He's a baseball guy and my buddy hired him and at the end of the deal I thought he was pretty good, but I didn't think it was that great and I asked my buddy I was like would you pay this guy? He's like five grand. I was like, are you kidding me? I said I would have done this for free. And then, uh, one of the coaches came up and says, hey, we, how much is fry charge? We'd rather have him come. And I'm like man, maybe I should start doing this. And so I started doing this stuff.
Speaker 2:And then, and then, uh, the charity stuff. I've always done charity stuff, but more and more of it's popping up now. Um, just because I think, uh, you know the social media aspect where you can get former players and I mean this last event I just did in cody wyoming there was this fifth year it's called the celebrities for a cause. Guy found me on facebook one day and said, hey, you want to come up to Cody Wyoming? I was like my girlfriend loves being outside. He's like we can go up to Yellowstone and I can play in this charity softball game and golf tournament. We can just hang out and have fun.
Speaker 2:Now it's the fifth year that I've been this past year. More and more guys are going. This year my buddy came up for three days early. We stayed in the cabin outside of Yellowstone and went fly fishing for two days and then I brought him to the airport. On the ride back I rode in the car with Terrell Davis and Andre Reid for two hours. Then you go and there's all these athletes and it's like everybody's there to enjoy themselves but also raise money for a great cause and I mean I can't wait to go back next year, just in little things like that. People are seeing that and then inviting me to do other things and it's just fun being around good people that have the same values and want to raise money for people.
Speaker 3:Wow, yeah, that's awesome. You may have said it. I had a little breakup. The charity that you were talking about, did you mention the name of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's called Celebrities for a Cause, celebrities for a Cause, and this year was benefiting cancer, the Bighorn Cancer Center. Two years ago it was a special Olympics in Wyoming. We played a basketball game against the local college kids and you know, I'm out there playing with Chris Cooley and Jermaine Jones, nba guy and Coyote Peterson and all these different people, and we have a couple special needs guys on our team and then we're playing against local college and you know, then it's a softball game, then it's golf tournaments a lot of fun too, and so many guys have been going to this every year. It keeps getting bigger and bigger and it's just a great time.
Speaker 3:Great people up there that's awesome, did you uh? Were your basketball skills still fresh like they were back in your high school day? Did you uh?
Speaker 2:you still have it I scored 13 points in like two or three.
Speaker 2:But I, I bombed out on the freaking three-point contest man, I was like I thought I was just dominate that thing and they, they moved me back to the not the top of the key, but about a foot behind that. And I was like, yeah, it's no big deal. And so when I got to shoot, one of the college guys came and stood right next to me. The entire time nobody didn't do that to anybody else and I, I mean, I got in my head.
Speaker 3:You know, it should have been better than that, yeah, um, that, wow, that's, that's funny man. Um. So so we talked about this a little bit before we started recording. Um, I spun this idea, the whole, the whole premise behind this episode. I it kind of was like right around the time of the college world series.
Speaker 3:I had just finished our travel ball season with my son and they're just in my head. I was like thinking like man, there's, there's, there's so many great things about baseball that I I didn't play baseball growing up, but, like watching my son play it, there's so many things that I've grown to love and appreciate about the game of baseball. Um, but, seeing, seeing some of the stuff that, like, a lot of people are pointing out, picking out about, like you know, players doing celebrations on hitting a double and and I moyer, I think it was you that posted it on on twitter, or x, formerly known as twitter about, like the dude like running, running his nose against like a drag of cocaine and it's just like you know, like there's so many great things with so many bad things, and I I was like in my mind after my son's last tournament, like thinking about things that frustrated me about the teams that we were playing and facing.
Speaker 3:I was like I think it would be fun just to sit around like with and let's, let's talk about things that we love and that we hate about baseball. And so when I was kind of spinning this idea with moyer around it, he was like I got a guy he was like jeff fry we.
Speaker 3:He's very open and vocal about this. Give me the guy that we should get on and I was like let's do it, schedule him. And so I greatly appreciate you taking the time to be on here. But let's start positive and then we'll work our way downhill from there. But let's start talking about the, you know, let's call it the dues of baseball, right, the things that we see working well in the game today.
Speaker 3:What just off the top of your head? You know we can, we can kind of go about this one or two ways we can talk, we can kind of spin things one at a time. We'll run on a tangent like I said, this really more so of an open con, you know, conversation, you know we've got structure to just to follow along a little bit. But I'm I'm intrigued to hear from you, jeff, specifically like and it can be major league level, collegiate level, high school level, travel, whatever you want to discuss but like what? What are things in the game today that you you feel like are working well towards the game or for the game of baseball as a whole?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, I think there's a lot of uh. I mean just watching the home run derby. There's just so many gifted athletes that are playing at the major league level. You know, you watch these guys. This dude's like 6'7" 240. You know, you just didn't see baseball. Many baseball players when I played that were that big and that athletic you know, hit a ball 500 feet and throw a ball 120 miles an hour and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:So you didn't see that. So I think that's good. I think a lot of athletes are, you know, are going to baseball. Unfortunately, as some of those guys are that I see in baseball are not necessarily great baseball players. They have the tools to be incredible, but they're not really performing at a high level. I think what has happened in the major league is that it kind of lowered the bar. In my opinion, you wouldn't make the all-star team 20 years ago if you were hitting 230. It didn't matter if you had 30 holes.
Speaker 2:You wouldn't be in the major leagues if you hit 230, unless you were a gold-glove caliber position player, and I think that's kind of the track you see this guy can hit. I used O'Neal Cruz in a post today. O'neal Cruz, you look at this guy, freak athlete. He can fly, he has a cannon, he can hit a ball 500 feet. He's hitting 212. In the major leagues, you know, I hit 246 my last year on one leg and that was the first year and I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed every time they showed my batting average on the scoreboard. I was like this is bad, I can't believe I'm hitting. I'm a 292 career hitter hitting 246. It's like, take that down. I don't want anybody to see how bad I'm doing, you know, but it seems like that's just across the board now in baseball it's like it's accepted yeah, we don't care about your batting average or you're on base, as long as you have a high slugging percentage, then your ops looks acceptable, then you're a good player and I think that's something that's changed a lot yeah well, I'll tell you what jeff
Speaker 1:I went to the home run derby yesterday and I sat there and watched these guys. It's 10 times more impressive to watch it in person than it is on TV and just watching these guys. And we go to the Braves games a lot because we're here, but I mean the ball. O'neal Cruz hit 500-something feet when out of the stadium. But where's the disconnect of like, ability to like, making that translate onto the field? Like, is that like? You think that's a coaching thing? Is it happening at the youth level? What do you think is a result of some of this size, strength and ability not being able to translate into performing at a consistent level in the big leagues?
Speaker 2:Well, I think they value certain things more than they used to. They're more concerned with, uh, the slug aspect and the power aspect and not as concerned with the making consistent contact and hitting for an average. So you know, look at kyle schwarber man, a dude hit around 200 but hit 40 homers and 100 ribbies and everybody's like great season. And I love kyle schwar, he's one of my favorite players, but that's I mean you're getting a hit one out of five times and you're a stud. You know that just. I mean, back in the day the home run hitters hit around 300 or nobody hit worse than 260, 270, because it wasn't accepted.
Speaker 2:But now it just seems to me that it's accepted because I think it's because of the analytics departments have somehow determined that it's better to swing for the fences and slug and lift the ball in the air, and we're going to score just as many runs if we play small ball and do these things. But what they've lost is the aspect of entertainment, because the game's kind of boring. I went to three games in three days. Man, it was pretty boring, like the most anybody scored was four runs in three days yeah, that's what I was literally about to ask.
Speaker 3:Do you think that? Do you think that some of what we're seeing in the, in the issues that we're seeing in major league baseball specifically, do you think it's? It's the, it's the television and the commercialized aspect of what we're trying to do? Where we're trying to. You know we're speeding up the game, right, we've changed the extra inning rules we've. You know, we've widened the bases, like we're doing all this stuff to change the game of baseball and I and it's in in the media's aspect in mind it's to is to make it more entertaining and make it more fun. But I think what you just said is spot on.
Speaker 3:I feel like we've done away with small ball, right, like we, we don't coach small ball anymore with it. We don't see small ball as much with it. So you know, I do you think you feel like that? The media has a lot to do with that as far as I mean, let's call it television ratings, right, are they trying to just speed up the game and so that's the way they're coaching, or do you think they're completely two separate entities as far as the game itself and media?
Speaker 2:I don't think it's the media as much as I think it's the Major League Baseball, the organizations and the people that are running these organizations.
Speaker 2:I got you organizations uh and the people that are running these organizations. Um, you know, if you and if you look at all the changes that they've made in baseball, every single change has benefited the offense. What has benefited the defense? No shift. Fewer pickoffs, bigger bases, pitch clock, all these. Every single thing they've done is trying to create more offense. Why? Why do we need more offense? What happened to the offense if all these players are so talented? Well, wait a minute. They changed what they value. Now it's hit the ball in the air to the pool side, and that's why so many guys are striking out and hitting for low batting average.
Speaker 2:I went to my second red sox fantasy camp this year. I was down in fort myers and I had a bunch of these young red sox players were there. You know, like these guys are getting there in january, their seasons don't start till april. These guys year-round training and they've all got these vests on and they're all in the cage and they're all getting. Every swing is measured and launch angle and exit velocity. I'm watching these kids in the cage and every swing is pull side homer everyone. Oh, he crushed that one then he. It's like the little kids you see in the cage when they hit a ball and they look up at the screen. That's what they were doing on every single swing and these dudes are like monsters, man.
Speaker 2:I'm looking at these dudes, like 6'3", 230. And they hit the ball and it's just like I've never hit a ball like that in my entire life and they're just crushing it right In the cage. Well then you go out into the season and the dude's hitting 220. It's because they don't know how to stay back and adjust with two strikes and shorten up and put the ball in play because that's not valued. They tell them don't worry about that, just keep doing that, just keep doing that. When I saw uh, I saw the uh, the rays play against the, the red socks on saturday, uh, crochet was filthy and I was watching these rays hitters. Man, every swing not just the rays, red socks too every swing is going for the downs and you can tell. It's obvious. If you have, if you're a baseball guy, you can see these things. It's like man, these dudes are taking hacks.
Speaker 1:You know, even with two strikes.
Speaker 2:They're not trying to hit a weak single to the right to get the next guy up, they're trying to do some damage. Uh, it's almost like when the game you know, so many times you see a game go in extra innings, right, well before the uh, the invisible man rule or the ghost runner, okay, in extra innings everybody changes Like, oh, they're trying to hit a home run to win the game. That's not how we play the game. How about we get a base hit? How about we move a guy over, steal a base? We can score a lot of different ways. It doesn't always have to be a home run, you know, yeah you can really tell.
Speaker 1:It's too, jeff, one of the biggest things that from. I mean, I played I got done playing in 2012 in college and I feel like that was kind of the beginning of the shift of baseball and I watch big league games and I'm watching guys with two strikes take a heater down the middle. I'm like why are we taking that? It's like they're not looking for it, so they'd better off. They're not trying to shorten up, they're looking for one pitch in one spot. If they don't get it, they just ain't swinging at it like they'd rather go back to the dugout and strike out, which doesn't make any sense to me so it's just.
Speaker 1:It's just interesting where, where everything's, where everything's gone. Um, let me ask you this what are? I know, I know you are prevalent on social media. What are some things that you admire at the youth level, the high school level, the college level? What are some things that you're seeing out there that you really like? I know that girl Lily you're a big fan of hers. What are some things like that that you admire that you see going on in youth sports, youth in high school?
Speaker 2:Just the kids that are really working hard. You know, I really, and that's one of the things I love about Lily is just that she's just a tireless worker, you know, and a great young lady and a great teammate. And I love seeing that there's another girl named Baseball Ashlyn that's always posting videos of her hitting and practicing. I just love seeing the kids heart to see.
Speaker 2:And people say that about me I've never criticized a kid. Okay, I might post a video that a guru is teaching a kid, but I never say anything negative about a kid. I don't do that. I made a point to never do that.
Speaker 2:This kid I'm attacking this kid? No, I'm not. I'm attacking the person that's teaching him to do this stupid drill. That's not going to make him any better, you know. And so when people go after, like the teacher man um went after lily, you know, and it's like if you knew lily's dad, you better hope to god you never run into lily's dad. You better hope to God you never run into Lily's dad. I can tell you that because it won't be pretty. And you know the people that want to hide in their basement and say these negative things about kids. Man, it makes me, infuriates me because I want to encourage these kids. All I want to do is keep working hard. Don't let anybody tell you you can't accomplish what you want, your dreams, and prove everybody wrong. That's what I like seeing at the youth level the kids, because these kids are busting their butt. Man, you see these kids working hard every day and I'm so glad they're doing that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, jeff, what's your opinion? No-transcript level.
Speaker 2:all-star level of baseball well, rec ball has gone. You know so bad that you know I wish the kids would. I think the kids should, if they can, if they have a good little league, play little league until they're 12, man, because I don't think kids should be playing loose bases until they're 13. I really don't. I don't think kids should be focused on holding runners and things like that when they're 10. They need to learn how to throw strikes they need to learn the proper mechanics.
Speaker 2:And then you run into some knucklehead coaches that are not there to develop kids. They're there to win games. And so now, every time a kid's on first, two pitches later he's on third. He didn't learn anything about stealing. They just know that most kids at 10 can't deliver the ball quickly to home and in the air to the catcher who makes a good throw to second. That's just hard to happen at 10.
Speaker 2:That's why I think you don't need loose bases until 13, and I think once you know, kids finish, you know at 12 years old and they start and go to the bigger bases and the elite kids if they want to start playing the select and play against better competition. I think that's a good time. I can just tell you that with my sons we did the two seasons of the select stuff reluctantly, I got to tell you I was so reluctant to do it but I wanted to see how my kids compared, um, how they competed, and it was the two worst summers of my freaking life, dude. I was like, oh my god, we got it. It's saturday night, we're getting home at 10 and we got to be an hour away at eight o'clock for a nine o'clock game to play a team that's from across the street and we're playing their.
Speaker 2:E team, where half these kids aren't more than half of these kids shouldn't be playing select ball and I'm just sitting there just going. Oh my God, now we've got to go get there an hour early so we can hit 10 balls into a net. It's like man, these kids, this crap. It was like it killed me, dude. I hate it. I was like I can't do this crap.
Speaker 1:How old were your kids when you were doing that, Jeff?
Speaker 2:15 or 16. Okay gotcha so high school. Yeah, so I was going from. Fort Worth to McKinney, texas hour drive after we just got home late and got some crappy takeout on the way home half asleep. Get up six hours later, go back, do the same crap again and then you know. Then you have one game at nine and it's like oh yeah, the next game's at three. What do you want to do? I was like kill myself.
Speaker 2:I want to stay here for another game and get home at 6, and the entire weekend is shot. And then the other kid. You know that's just one kid, you know, playing. The other kid who's not playing, he has to be there, bored out of his frigging skull to even be there. You know, yeah, and it's just like oh man, it was painful, dude, I couldn't stand it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, dude, I couldn't stand it. Yeah, yeah, I will say so. So my son did. He's played baseball this is his fifth year playing and he did. He did rec ball for for the first four years, did all star baseball for two years and that was fun.
Speaker 3:It was like that right hybrid of a of a travel ball experience, but not quite as painful. But then, going to the travel ball thing, it was the same thing. Like you said, I mean driving an hour and a half, two hours away. There were many times like I, you know, if it was like beyond an hour and a half away, I just I would text my wife and be like, hey, I'm booking a hotel for the weekend, I'm not driving all the way up there, all the way back, all the way back up there again, and then all the way back again I was like I'd rather just you know, at least try to make somewhat of a fun experience with our kids for it, cause, same thing, We've got a, we've got a daughter and a and a two-year-old that you know they're. They're the same thing. They're the feral children of the ballpark. So, yeah, I can what you're saying and it's the same thing you said with the teams and and I and I like that you said that about the open bases, because I think that's one big criticism as a youth parent that I see is exactly that you've got coaches that are out there just trying to win and that's the biggest thing that they're doing is just they're moving runners, moving runners, moving runners and taking advantage of pitchers who are trying to develop. It's their. You know, nine years, the first year you're pitching, so you've got one season under your belt, this is your second season pitching and all of a sudden now you're having to deal with that and it's just you. It rattles kids, you know, and now they're not thinking, and you know they're not thinking about their fundamentals and it just it really everything just gets shot to hell, for lack of better terms. You know, with what happens with with kids at the youth level. So I, I, I wholeheartedly agree with that.
Speaker 3:And then, another thing we talked about to that same entity, about coaches wanting to coach just to win, was, you know, before we started recording, I would tell a story about our last tournament and I, we've got the game changer coach, if we want to call him that sitting at the dugout leading the chance right, trying to throw the pitcher off, you know, and it's not like I'm telling the kids what the chance he's screaming with the kids right as the pitchers, you know, trying to come set and you know, and going through his windup, and it's just like I don't know, man, that that's that's for me. Like you know, coaching and playing football, you know you don't really see that stuff to that level, but, like you know, baseball is so much more of a mental game than than football is. And, like you know, like an adult taking advantage of a kid, like that, you know, and trying to manipulate a child for the sake of winning, I'm just like it's just, I mean, and that team was full of talented athletes, you know what I mean. You didn't need to do that to beat. You know our team, like you, had a crap ton of talent, but it just I don't know.
Speaker 3:The Bush League stuff with youth baseball specifically, just it gets under my skin. It's disappointing to see. For sure we're in it now and he's moved to a different team. It's actually several guys that Moyer's either coached with or coached in college baseball. They started an organization and I'm super excited about that because I think they're coaches that are focused on the right thing. It should be a great experience for us. He'll start that the next month or so. We're transitioning into the don'ts easily. We're talking about that now. As far as that goes, what for you, jeff? What's something that's really frustrating beyond what we've already talked about? Something that is super frustrating that you're seeing that's gotten off track with baseball.
Speaker 2:The adults who don't act like adults. Let's use the adult term loosely, because just because you're old doesn't mean you're an adult. I don't know how you bit your tongue, because if that dude was doing that, I would have done something.
Speaker 3:I didn't bite my tongue. I mean I was chirping back and it was like, you know, we're on the first base side, they're on the third base side, I'm sitting, as you know. I'm sitting, you know, right behind first base and I'm, you know, talking to the parents. You know loud enough for the first base coach to hear what I'm saying about that coach, so that you know, I guarantee first base coach is going back and be like, hey, these parents are saying that I was, you know, I wasn't going to do anything. You know, confront the guy, but I did it, man, I was, I was, you know, I was mocking him and you know he was going, yeah, yeah, and I, you know he was going, yeah, yeah, and I was doing it right back. As soon as we make it so, no, I, I, I. I acted like a child at some point too, when it got under my skin. So in full clarity.
Speaker 2:So, to answer your question, maybe that's what's wrong with baseball. Right, it's like youth baseball. It's the uh adults not acting like adults, and every kid on that field got to witness that Right.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that's what's bad, and something you said earlier about the 10-year-olds throwing, having to hold runners and the kid got rattled. How can 10 year olds be getting rattled on the baseball field? We're not doing it right If. If 10 year olds are getting rattled, they shouldn't be fun and you're supposed to be allowed to make mistakes because you're just learning the game and that's part of it.
Speaker 2:You know it's supposed to be fun. Hey, don't worry about it. You know, but I think there's too much pressure on these kids. You know there's too much pressure on these kids. Everybody wants little Johnny to be the next Mike Trout. Where really the important thing is let's let little Johnny have fun, learn to love the game, learn how to be a good teammate, learn how to fail, and if he wants to come back and play next year, that's a win. That's really all that matters, right? We've got to learn those things and not little johnny's rank. You know, 74th in the 10u group in perfect game. I was like who gives a shit? Let him play baseball. It doesn't mean how good you are when you're 10. Right? Jordan got cut from his basketball team his junior year in high school. How'd that work out?
Speaker 3:Right, I totally agree with that and being a youth coach, you see that a lot. Like you know, for the kids that you know that play multiple sports, you know, and you see a lot of them have, like you know, the fear of failure paralyzes them. You know what I mean. And then it's almost like paralysis by analysis, right, they start overthinking too much and it's like they don't know to go left, right up down. You know, and you see that so much, and it's like, just fail, just make a mistake, it's okay. Like that's that's the biggest thing that I coach with kids is. I'm like it's okay if you mess up, we're gonna talk about it, but I'm not gonna get mad at you. Now, if it was you were checked out, not paying attention and you know something happened, that's on you. But like if you failed because you were trying, or you failed because you were, you were doing what you should have done, so what? Let's fix it, let's talk about it, let's you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:I think that that's 100 what you're saying, jeff. I think that's that's how you, how you make these kids better. Right, they've got to fail before they succeed to be better at what they're doing. And I think that unfortunately, we don't allow that in baseball anymore, because we see so many coaches that put such an emphasis on winning at all costs and not development and fun for that matter and I'm guilty of it and that's it's, honestly why I started this whole podcast thing was, you know, the journey of this is my seventh year coaching football and, you know, going through it and learning like the things that I did wrong at the beginning, and same thing like not allowing kids to develop and enjoy what they're doing, and so that's.
Speaker 3:You know it's reassuring to hear somebody. You know, like you, you say the exact same thing like allow them to fail. Say the exact same thing like allow them to fail. So, um, you know my, I let my competitive edge, you know, show, show out a little too much sometimes, but, you know, try to keep it under control. My wife jabs me in the in the left rib. I know it's time to uh, calm down a little bit. So, um, but uh, what about? Are there any other specifics as far as things and it doesn't have to stay at the youth level we can talk about. You know high school travel. You know collegiate and professional level, like, are there any other things that you see specifically there that are.
Speaker 2:I've gotten off track with the game yeah, the celebration stuff, um, not good, um, obviously. Yeah, think about that today on the way here and I'm going to make a post, probably today, about it. It's like, how about if kids, instead of celebrating or I forget how to phrase this If you want to impress scouts and college coaches, do the opposite of what the other kids are doing? Don't celebrate. Do the opposite of what the other kids are doing, don't celebrate. Go out there and act like you've done it before and act like a professional, because be a leader, don't be a follower. Everybody else has to get to second base and go oh yeah, do this. Or take a fake piss on the base and look like a jackass, and all the scouts that are there are like, eh. College coaches are like, eh, I don't know. But if you're the guy that goes out there like Wyatt Langford and hits a homer and runs around the bases and acts like you're supposed to do it, if you do that now, you're going to stand out. You're going to be the one or two guys on the team who's not celebrating everything you do on a baseball field. And so how about we try it in reverse and see how many kids want to go out there and set the example and be a leader instead of just a follower and do what everybody else does.
Speaker 2:And that, and the reason I believe that's gotten to this level is because of major leagues, the uh, you know, let the kids have fun. Things like, first off, they ain't kids, they're grown men, okay, and they're doing a job they get paid for. Why do they have to act like it off, they ain't kids, they're grown men, okay, and they're doing a job they get paid for. Why do they have to act like it's fun to make it more fun? So now little johnny, it's a homer and he wants to do what jazz chisholm does and do a shot around first and do all these things like that. And so now it's just a shit show. Now we got people doing the you know the little league, uh, savannah bananas, and let's do drive out to the you know everything's like.
Speaker 2:I think social media is destroying all the stuff that uh, you know, the coaches and and people that taught me how to game, to play the game and respect and your opponent. I think it's just all blown out of the because of social media and everybody wants the likes and have fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, none of that. Spot on, I agree with that. Moyer, you got anything to add to that?
Speaker 1:No, I just think obviously I follow a lot on what you do on social media, jeff, and I think what people don't realize at the core is people are missing the message. The purpose of why you're saying the things that you say, why people that are actually went places in the game are saying is because you're missing out on core things that make good players good players. And when you focus on all you know, the celebrations and this, that and the other, like it takes away from you truly learning how to play the game, and I think that's the message at its core is like it's fine if you want to have fun, but have fun the right way and play the right way, because you're missing out on other pieces of baseball along the way, things that actually make you a good player. Like no one celebrated when I was playing like we hit a double and stood there, and no one celebrated when I was playing Like we hit a double and stood there and that was it.
Speaker 1:Like we just moved on, and I think you know I think that kind of leads us into like you lose sight of the most important things and you know areas we've lost sight in development and values and stuff like that. Like what we value is not what makes good baseball players good baseball players these days, like the celebrations and you know the launch angle, that doesn't make good baseball players. That makes good big leaguers, but it doesn't make good baseball players at the youth level, which is what we're all aspiring to get those kids the next level. So you know, I just it needs to go back to baseball and training and development needs to get back, get back to the core of why we're teaching it.
Speaker 1:I think that's kind of where we've been off base. Teaching the game doesn't matter anymore, holding runners doesn't matter, none of that stuff matters anymore. It's like what do we have to do to get these kids back to, you know, seeing the game for what it used to be, when the game was actually like fun to watch? I'm like four runs in a game that's a joke, like it's stupid, like baseball is not supposed to be that like none of this stuff makes the makes this any fun and makes it makes watching it more enjoyable.
Speaker 1:So, um, I don't know, that's just kind of my take. Like I feel like people are they miss the message of what we're trying to get out at the core and I don't think that, uh, people realize how much fun I had playing the game.
Speaker 2:Nobody had more fun than me, dude, I promise you. I was messing with my teammates, talking, smack, goofing around, joking when it was time to be serious. I was serious, but nobody had more fun than I did and I never showed up anybody, and I think that's the thing that is being missed. It's like it's not fun unless you do a silly dance or have a celebration. Why isn't it? It is fun for me to hit a double and knock in a run with two outs and give my team the lead. That's a hell of a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:I don't have to act like a fool to make you believe it was fun, because I know it was fun, because I know my hard work paid off all these years and that was fun for me to succeed, because I know I put in the hard work. And I think another thing that we're missing too with the youth levels is and let's just face facts the odds are not many of these kids are going to make it Okay Professionally. I mean less than 1%. These kids are making it professionally in their major leagues Okay. We need to develop these kids as good people, good citizens, leaders with integrity and respect, because when they get their first job out of college and you know they get their first business deal are they going to jump up in their cubicle.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean you know, when it doesn't work out, are they going to break their freaking computer or whatever? They have to learn how to life, man. Life's not easy. Life's not all about fun and games, man. It's going to be ups and downs and this is the good stuff. This is our chance to teach these kids you know how life is going to be when they get there. It's not that easy. There's going to be. You have to make adjustments all the time. It's not that easy. There's going to be. You have to make adjustments all the time. You got to take the good with the bad, go with the, try to stay even keel. And I think we're missing the point that you know. This is what we're supposed to be teaching these kids at these ages, and not just about acting silly. You know, did you have fun?
Speaker 2:One another thing I want to add real quick. I'm sorry I'm rambling, but one of my best friends, colonel craig flowers, keynote speaker, dude's incredible 25 years in the army, 10 years human intelligence. He's got a great idea as far as after the game, when you get in the car after the game, no, talk about what just happened. Okay, it's man. I love watching you play. I really enjoy watching you play. What do you want to eat when you get home? That's it.
Speaker 2:Don't talk about the game, because 99 of the time it turns into shit and where your kid's now pissed off and he doesn't want to talk. There's no sense in talking about it. You can't change what happened. You know what I mean everybody's emotions a little high. Oh, you could have knocked in the run and then last inning, and why didn't you swing? You know what I mean. And so these kids, these kids don't want to get in the car to go home with their parents because they're afraid what's? They're going to get grilled on the way home. They shouldn't have to deal with that yeah man, I love watching you play.
Speaker 2:Love you buddy game. Tomorrow let's go get some mcdonald's.
Speaker 3:No, that's huge, that's huge yeah, one of the things that sticks out all right, chris I just want to hit on this one I don't
Speaker 1:forget it, one of the biggest things that drives me nuts is we've created not, not, not such. We've created an inclusive culture, but we've included. We've created inclusive baseball. We're I'm going to a youth tournament and we've got single a, double a, triple a and major and they're all. They're all 12. Like what is that teaching these kids? Like you're gonna have to play against these kids when you get to high school. Why? Why do we have a lesser age group at 12 and a major eight? Why can't we just play one, one age group of 12 year old baseball? Like that's not teaching these kids anything about reality. Like you're gonna have to go get a job and just because that guy is has a master's degree and a doctorate doesn't mean that you with no degree can't go get that job. We're teaching these kids the wrong message from the beginning. I can't stand the single A, double A, triple A. Why is it not just one level of 12 U baseball? Why can't we do that? I think that sends the wrong message to these kids too.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what Little League was. Little know, little League is like you have a draft and you know you're going to pick your best couple of players in the first few picks and then you've got to piece everybody together and now coach has to develop these kids. You've got to teach them how to play. You don't just draft. You know, put together the best 12-year-olds and go out and win and say, man, we're good. Well, you didn't teach them anything. They were already good before you got them. What?
Speaker 1:can you do about?
Speaker 2:a kid who can't walk and chew bubblegum. Can you get him to catch a ball and maybe get a hit and want to come back next year? I mean, I'll never forget my son was playing I think it was like middle school, right before high school and there was a kid on our team. He didn't get a hit the whole season. Man, it was breaking my heart. I love this kid and his family. And finally he got a hit, like the last game. I probably jumped like three feet in the air. I was so excited. I was like, yes, you know for this sport, because I know how important it was to him.
Speaker 2:So it's not just about the you know it pisses me off too when you see these teams, that you know still other kids, good players, and then say oh yeah, we won 27 world championships 12 years. Look at us, whoo, you know. Come on, man, get a life. I mean, develop all the kids. Okay, your 5'9" 12-year-old is going to be five foot 10, 16 year old and and everybody's going to pass him up.
Speaker 2:So let's not act like he's Aaron Judge for the rest of his life. They're going to catch up. He's only better because he's bigger, stronger than the rest when they catch him yeah, they're going to pass him up because he doesn't work hard and they're going to have to yeah, oh yeah, those are.
Speaker 3:Those are usually those guys that I call them scrappers. You know, the, the guys that don't really get, you know, aren't given the fair chance, and a lot of in football or baseball, like you know, they're getting overlooked because of their size and like. Usually, like you said, they're the ones that have to fight harder. Those usually end up being the the freak athlete because just they've got that, they've got that grit. You know that they've been overlooked and they have to fight harder. They've done it their whole life and it's nothing new to them.
Speaker 3:Circling back to what I was going to say, you were talking about that with the parents, about saying I love watching you play. You guys heard of the guy, coach Ballgame. He does a lot of more centered around youth baseball stuff. Now, he actually was at the all-star village. We were there Sunday and he was there Like they were just playing a little like wiffle ball game and but, like I started like kind of keeping it up with his content. Some of us a little quirky, like just his personality, but but his messages are great and solid and um, one of the videos I liked, that kind of hit home a while back, was like if you want your kid to quit playing video games, you should sit right next to him the whole time and keep chirping at him and telling him what he's doing wrong, and then every time you get in the car up with him when you, when you're riding in the car with him, make sure you tell him the whole car, ride home everything that he did wrong and I guarantee he'll quit playing video games.
Speaker 3:It's like doesn't that sound familiar with what you're doing with baseball? And I was like, oh yeah, that's good. So the same thing you said, jeff, I started doing that with my son Like, love, you Go have fun, excited to watch you play today. And then, you know, proud of you. You know the only thing, the thing I tell him, the only thing I'm ever going to get on to you about, is your attitude. Your attitude and your effort. Those are the two things I'm always going to hold you accountable for, and if those lack, you and I are going to have a conversation about it. But you ground out three times oh well, I'm not. It doesn't change how I feel about you as my son, and so that's. But that's all encouragement from from people like you who are, who are pushing that message, and so I appreciate you saying that Before we, before we close out, I just want to do rapid fire, kind of Jeff and and and Moyer, I want you guys just to say do it, don't do it kind of thing.
Speaker 3:And it's just I kind of I kind of was sitting here while we were talking and close like more so diminishing the list a little bit just to make it go quicker, but just kind of rapid fire prompt list here, just like do it, don't do it. And that's really all you got to say do it, don't do it. But just to run down these things, I'll just call them out and then I'll give you both an opportunity to say yes or no to it. And these are youth level, high school level and and college professional level. But um, first one, all right, run out every ground ball, even if they're out do it do it all right.
Speaker 3:uh, this, this one, I, this one, I should. I should specify it's obviously centered more towards youth athletes, but um getting visibly upset after striking out I guess you see major league ballplayers do this too, but it's you know what's your say on it?
Speaker 1:Don't do it. Don't do it, all right.
Speaker 3:Try to play every position throughout the season. This is probably more towards youth.
Speaker 1:I would say towards youth.
Speaker 3:Obviously, yeah, yeah, um, oh, this one's, this one's definitely probably more youth to uh have your parents carry your your bag, nope, don't do it. That's it. That's when I I posted something on social media about this one. It's funny. I have a friend who um manages a program out at East Cobb and I posted this on and he sent me. He goes I got a list for you. We just had tryouts, I got suggestions and this was one of the ones that he said. He was like watching an 11U kid have his parents carry his bag. He's like that tells me all about your work ethic as a, as an athlete. You know, when you're that that age and uh, that's more.
Speaker 2:That's more about the parents than the kid. You know that tells you more about parents is they're going to be bringing little johnny a gatorade and going, it's okay, next time he's like go away yeah, my son, he was probably six, you at the time.
Speaker 3:I remember, I remember I was coaching third base for his little rec team and I remember walking back into the dugout in between innings and there's a kid sitting there in the dugout eating a cheeseburger because it was dinner time and the mom brought a cheeseburger and I was like, oh, my goodness, my goodness. So I know I have expectations, but that was a new one, so this is definitely well, I think. Obviously this one probably goes from youth all the way to collegiate level. But parents coaching over coaches Don't do it. I figured that one would be the answer on that. Do it. I figured that one that would be the answer on that. Um, let's go. Uh, ignoring signs. Your coat, not sorry, let me try that again. Little little, uh, mini brain lapse there. Uh, ignoring signs from your coach because you think you know better no, don't do it um let your parents speak to you, to your coach, about your playing time.
Speaker 2:Don't do it but I don't think a 10 year old can tell his dad hey dad, quit talking to my coach.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah yeah that's that's and that and that one and that one falls, probably more that one's actually in, like the high school travel ball section as far as the way it broke it out. But but like to that, to that right, even at 10 years old do you think that parents should be talking to coaches about playing time in the travel rec ball? Or I mean, obviously rec ball is a little more sanctioned with playing time because most like, like the league that Harlow played in, every kid had to play a minimum number of innings. Right, it wasn't a situation where you could sit, little Johnny, you know, if it's a five inning game he couldn't sit. You know four of the five. They had to play a minimum and like they do that with travel ball, obviously it's a little bit different. But like, at what age do you recommend that a kid start approaching his coach on his own, as opposed to a parent coming and inserting themselves and being upset about playing time?
Speaker 2:I'd say high school. I don't think they're mature enough before that. I used to tell my son like my son wasn't playing. I was like I'm'm not gonna talk to your coach. I said, so you can just sit on the bench behind that guy at second base, or you could go tell your coach that you can play the outfield too if you want. And he never did it. Yeah, you get to play. So I was like, oh well, that was your. I told you what to do and I wasn't gonna do it for you, you know yeah, I also think some high school you could be playing on a team that you're not.
Speaker 1:There's no, there's no reason every kid should sit an entire game at any level up until high school. In my opinion, you should be on the team where everybody's playing, at least getting in a bad. You'll literally roll you know three outs or one at bat. I mean you should at least be on a team where you're getting some some ride time in the game, unless Unless it's a disciplinary reason Disciplinary reason.
Speaker 2:Because that happened. I'll tell you real quick. I know you got to go, but my oldest son threw his helmet.
Speaker 2:He threw his helmet and I was coaching his team and I said you're out of the game. Man, sit over here and cheer your teammates on. This is like two innings from the game being over and then we had a double hair. Next game he wasn't in the lineup and I'm at third base and he looks at the lineup and across the field he goes like this to me and I'm like, oh, I got to walk across it Time out. I walked across the field, I asked my first base coach to coach there and I said come here. And we walked outside the stadium all the way around the corner and I handled it. But it was like I mean, yeah, especially as a coach, you can't let your kid be the one who's acting up, because then the other kids think they can do it. So you just gotta handle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you gotta fix that right away, yeah oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely, um, I, it's, I the one of the very first episodes I did is with my, my son, and is talking about, like, my relationship with him and coaching him in football and spot on. That he like that's a conversation he and I have. I'm like you're the standard, like, unfortunately, you're the standard, which means the expectation of how you act is even greater because everybody else is going to see exactly what you do and think that they can get away with it or not get away with it. So, let's see, let me get. I want to get one more. Do your job, even if it's not the role you wanted. Yeah, awesome, yeah, awesome, awesome. Well, moyer, you got anything else you want to tag on?
Speaker 1:No, I wrote a few down. I want to hit Jeff with on these. These are more big league ones. I'll go real quick on Jeff oh you're fine Walk across the pitcher's mound. No, um, hold on. Uh, we talked about running, running out ground balls um bat flipping when it's right. When is it right or wrong?
Speaker 2:I.
Speaker 1:I think the only time I would could maybe accept it would be a walk-off home run um um if the pitchers sorry, I'll let you finish I mean I still don't like it, but I don't know, there's something cold blooded in the home run and just dropping the bat and walking the bases there's something cold blooded about that maybe I'm just too old to say, well, it's all changed, now let's just have fun and flip your bats, and who cares?
Speaker 2:and what if it hits the catcher in the head and then you get smoked, your next AB in the air hole. So, whatever you can flip your bat, just know Hits the catcher in the head and then he gets smoked, your next AB in the air hole. So, whatever you can flip your bat, just know that you just showed up my teammate and that if you have to come up again, hope you're ready.
Speaker 1:That was my next one Retaliation on stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Believe it. Now, I don't believe in hitting a guy guy because I got thrown at when my teammate hit a homer. Okay, my teammate hit a homer and I was up next and dude threw it over my head. It was like I didn't do hit a homer, you gave up the homer. Why are you throwing at me? You know, yeah, to me that's that's chicken shit. So if, um, and I've told my teammates to hit guys before, it's just part of the game. I told John Wasden that White Sox accidentally hit John Valentine in the wrist and broke his wrist. It wasn't on purpose, but he was one of our studs. So I went up to Wasden and I said you get two outs the next inning. I said smoke, the next MF-er, and he goes all right. So he went and got the first two guys and the first pitch. It was Ron Karkovice. Oh, right in the ring. He hit him so flush that the ball fell straight down. All you heard was, oh, karkovice.
Speaker 2:And then Watson came in the dugout and I said you just earned every one of your teammates respect by doing that. And that was it. It was over. It was done. Eye for an eye man, you hit our guy. Sorry, you didn't mean to do it on purpose. When we hit your guy, it's going to be on purpose.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pitchers tipping pitches at second base. Are you relaying the signs? Is that right or wrong? It's right.
Speaker 2:It's right On the field. That's okay in my opinion. Um, you gotta disguise your signals, man.
Speaker 1:It's not my fault, that you know. Did you see what's been going on recently with like the yankees, like waving arms, like they're not even trying to be discreet about it?
Speaker 2:dude, I did that in college. I didn't know any better. My roommate, uh, jodan dunn, won 10 tough man contests in Oklahoma and Arkansas, so nobody was going to mess with us. And so if I had the pitch, I'm at second base, jumping up and down, going one, one fastball and then he would hit a home or whatever it's like.
Speaker 2:What are they going to do? But at the professional level you got to be a little bit more discreet and we had ways of doing it and I never even wanted them from the guys. I was like I'm looking for a fastball anyway. I don't want you telling me a curveball, I sit on a curveball and I get my fastball. So I'd rather not know.
Speaker 1:Interesting um, I think that's all I got for you. Uh, I'm just curious on those few. Um, I don't think I have any more.
Speaker 2:I want to tell you real quick when you said something about the scrappy guys, chris. So in ninth grade I went out for basketball I lived in California, right. I went out for basketball and I was a smurf. I was five foot a hundred pounds and I went out it was a big time Basketball program and the coach came up and he put his arm around me and he said come back when you grow up. And I was like, oh man, first time I ever got cut and I was like I need to start practicing more. So I practiced my ass off and moved to oklahoma.
Speaker 2:Two years later I, you know, averaged 23 and a half points going to junior college to play basketball. Three years later, yeah, 92. I make the make it to the major leagues. We go to Oakland. I get the game-winning hit in the ninth inning off Dennis Eckersley the year he was Cy Young and MVP. Right In Oakland, the same town where I got cut from basketball and after the game I found a guy from the Oakland Chronicle. I said will you do me a favor? And he said, yeah, what's that? I said will you tell Mike Phelps from Bishop O'Dowd High School that Jeff Fry is back and he's grown up now and it was in the paper the next day.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, like you said about the scrappy guys are going to find a way, and a lot of that stuff happened in my life, just because everybody said I couldn't do it, and I was like, all right, let's see what I can do, you know. And it's kind of I don't know, I just use it as motivation. A lot of people might not A hundred percent. For me. I use it as motivation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, no, and to do that note, like you know, I'm off the top of my head Like, probably for my football team, mind you, they're 10, 11 year olds, but like probably two of the best defensive guys I have are a safety and a corner. They also play receiver for us, but like they're gonna make it happen. You know what I mean. Like they don't care that the guy might be twice their size, like if it's their job to make the tackle, they're gonna make it happen. And and and I always say to them like that you know they might be shorter in stature, but they probably have two of the biggest hearts out there on the team and it's, it's that, like I think it's because the same thing you just said, they use it for motivation.
Speaker 3:That's what, it's what keeps them given and their leaders on the team. The kids just automatically are drawn to them because of who they are and their personality. So, yeah, they're, they're, they're, they're some of my favorite kids for sure. So, jeff, if there's one piece of advice that you could leave from our conversation whether you know for any athlete at any level, what would you end it on?
Speaker 2:I would just say believe in yourself and outwork the competition and if you want it bad enough, you can achieve anything in life. It doesn't have to be just baseball. You set your mind to. You put your mind to something and work at it tirelessly. And if it doesn't work out, at the end of the day you'll be able to look in the mirror and say you know what? I left no stone unturned. I busted my butt. It just wasn't meant to be. And now I can be proud of who I look at in the mirror to know that I gave it everything I had. That's it.
Speaker 2:That's all you can do in life man give it what you got and then don't have any, any regrets. You don't want those guys, those guys that you know I see on social media that said, oh well, they taught me how to hit raw. I was like no, they didn't. They taught me how to hit the same way and it worked. So people make us. Don't be an excuse maker, man. You know, I just lay it out there and accept what happens yeah, that's, uh, that's, that's spot on, man.
Speaker 3:well, je, I appreciate your time being on with us. I do think, after hearing you talk, I do think that we owe it to the world to have you come back on with us again just to actually share your story from start to finish. I know we gave a little glimpse of it in introducing you, but I would definitely love to hear you know, hear your your your story from start to finish, man, and just really unfold that in for for a whole episode. So, um, appreciate your time and and would love to get you back on whenever we can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate it. Chris and uh and Jeff and uh. Yeah, just let me know, man, I'm uh, you know, retired, trying to play golf here and there, catch a fish, have a cold beer, enjoy life. I caught a foul ball at the frigging Red Sox game. Can you believe that?
Speaker 2:First time I caught a foul ball. Yes, I went to a Red Sox game on Friday and Saturday with my girlfriend and she goes babe, you better not let me get hit with the ball. I was like you're not going to get hit with the ball, we're behind, we're in the third row or whatever, and there's a net like almost over our head and all of a sudden the ball hits off the back grandstand and starts ricochets right at us and I'm like, holy crap, it's like 100-something. Usually you think it's coming at you and it's always a section away or whatever. This thing kept coming, dude, coming, and I'm like, oh, my god, it's coming right here. And I freaking go wham and snagged it with one hand and it was like and I turned around to the crowd and they, it was unbelievable, that just happened and I just gave it to this little boy there.
Speaker 3:Oh man, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:It was the most incredible thing. Yeah, I'm available, man, I enjoy life. I appreciate you guys. Keep doing your thing.
Speaker 3:Let me know whenever you want me to be back home. All right, thanks, jeff. I appreciate you. Thanks for being on.
Speaker 1:All right fellas. Thanks y'all.
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